Invitees:

Councillor C E Smith

Kelly Watson – Group Manager Legal & Democratic Services

The Scrutiny Officer presented a report which provided information on the legal services collaboration, which is a collaboration as a result of Monitoring Officers from Bridgend, Ceredigion, Carmarthenshire, Swansea, Neath Port Talbot and Pembrokeshire Councils recognising the future resilience problems to be faced. Powys County Council had joined the collaboration since 2012. 

The Committee questioned whether the underspend in Legal & Regulatory Services had been re-allocated.  The Group Manager Legal & Democratic Services informed the Committee that a decision on the re-allocation of the underspend back to Legal & Regulatory Services had yet to be made by the Finance Department. 

The Committee questioned whether the Council was getting its fair share of legal services from the collaboration and were there instances when the legal services collaboration was not available to the Council.  The Group Manager Legal & Democratic Services informed the Committee that the Directorate relied on the joint legal services team to undertake work on its behalf from time to time. She stated that the Planning Lawyer engaged by the authority for 3 days per week is employed by the joint legal services team with the bulk of that officer’s work being undertaken for this authority.  The authority also used the joint legal services team to undertake property law work and the Group Manager Legal & Democratic Services believed the authority is getting an equal share from the joint legal services team.  The Committee asked whether there were any instances whereby the joint legal services team was not available to the authority.  The Group Manager Legal & Democratic Services was not aware of such instances of the joint legal services team not being available but the authority has had to wait for work to be carried out. 

The Committee requested clarification regarding concerns that the framework agreement for externalising work to solicitors and barristers may not be as effective as the previous framework.  The Group Manager Legal & Democratic Services informed the Committee that the previous framework agreement had come to an end on 31 March 2015.  The previous framework agreement had resulted in very good rates being received from solicitors and barristers.  She stated there was now a push to using the National Procurement Service (NPS), however the new framework agreement was not yet up and running.  Under the new framework agreement, the NPS would approach barristers’ chambers as opposed to officers approaching chambers.  She stated that the NPS would charge a levy and it was unlikely the rates charged would as competitive as the previous framework agreement. 

The Committee questioned referred to the Directorate making budget cuts year on year and questioned how it was able to keep delivering services and whether an assessment has been made of the impact of those budget cuts on service users / other Directorates.  The Group Manager Legal & Democratic Services informed the Committee that some Directorates require more advice from Legal & Regulatory Services and where services require additional advice the joint legal services team would be contacted to ascertain whether they have capacity to provide that advice.  The Committee questioned what would happen in the event of sickness cover being needed.  The Group Manager Legal & Democratic Services informed the Committee that where there was sickness in the various legal teams, the use of the joint team would be considered to undertake some work. 

The Committee questioned the use of the Special interest groups (SIGs).  The Group Manager Legal & Democratic Services informed the Committee that the SIGs work very well and provide a forum to share best practice and experience on dealing with difficult cases and also as support network.  The use of SIGs had proven beneficial in barristers delivering training jointly.  She stated that over the course of time many of the Chairs of SIGs had left their posts and the numbers of staff employed by the partner authorities had also diminished and therefore attendance at SIGs and training had also diminished. 

The Committee expressed concerned that Regional Trainee Solicitors may be lost to the private sector due to a lack of funding in future and asked whether training new solicitors was putting a pressure on staff.  The Group Manager Legal & Democratic Services informed the Committee that there were no trainee solicitors employed at BCBC at present.  She stated that it was difficult to recruit suitably experienced local government lawyers. 

The Committee questioned the impact on the joint legal services collaboration following the recent announcement by the Minister on the re-organisation of local government.  The Group Manager Legal & Democratic Services informed the Committee that the authorities whom the Minister had proposed BCBC would merge with were not in the collaboration and it was difficult to predict whether the collaboration would get bigger or shrink.

The Committee questioned the inability to use the file sharing portal in the Cardiff Courts.  The Group Manager Legal & Democratic Services informed the Committee that the Child Care Team uses the file sharing portal and there was reluctance by the Cardiff Courts to use the portal.              

Conclusions

The Committee noted the report, which provided Information on the Legal Collaboration Services.

·                     The Committee notes the significant savings made by the Legal Services Collaboration and the reassurance that daily business is being maintained throughout the Authority.  However, as part of its overview responsibility, the Committee welcomes views from other Overview and Scrutiny Committees on the current services provided by the Directorate.

·                     Members queried whether the underspend for the Legal and Regulatory Services Directorate would be reallocatedand, if so, where.  The Officer replied that the Assistant Chief Executive - Legal & Regulatory Services is currently waiting for advice from Finance and it is unknown at present where this money will be used if it becomes available.

·                     Members were concerned that Regional Trainee Solicitors may be lost to the private sector due to lack of funding in future and asked whether training new solicitors is putting a pressure on staff.  The Officer replied that there are no trainee solicitors employed at BCBC at present.

·                     Members queried why BCBC is unable to use the system for file sharing in the Cardiff courts.  The Officer explained that the issue is not with the ability of the Authority to use the system it is an issue with how the system is managed and utilised at Cardiff courts. 

·                     Members raised concerns over the loss of the framework agreement in April 2015 and what is happening in the interim period until a new framework is in place. The Offer advised that in the interim period until August 2015, when the new framework is scheduled to be in place, the Authority will continue to use the old framework as much as possible.

·                     Members asked which aspects of the Special Interest Groups (SIG’s) work well and how are they managed. The Officer felt that they provide a good support network and training is provided by barristers in specialist areas. Joint training is available at no cost to the Authority twice a year via this system. However, some Chairs of the SIG’s have left recently and physical attendance is diminishing.

Further information requested

·                     The Committee has requested further information to show in more detail the amount and type of support the Authority contributes to the collaboration compared to that which it receives.